Westfront to Apse - 2 entries the same?

[Denk]

Hi, I was just wondering why we have the following games:

Enchanter - Westfront to Apse Paul Allen Panks 1995 English
Westfront to Apse Paul Allen Panks ??? English

Are they not the same?

I know there are both a C64 version and a C128 version which are close to identical though the C64 version has constant disk access and not the 3 "windows" present on the C128 screen. Both versions should be a reworked recovery of the lost original C128 game. I also note that "Westfront to Apse" is not part of the series as the other 6 games (I ignore also Westfront Omega which should be quite different).

[Strident]

Paul's own writing about the game is confusing... he regarded Mythic Castle as the C64 version of the original Westfront to Apse. But then he went on to make another specific C64 version of the game which he released as Westfront to Apse.

[Denk]

Yes, it is all quite confusing. I just did two updates on the CASA entry for "Enchanter: Westfront to Apse" but we might as well wait carrying these out until I/some have looked more into it.

By now I have learned the following:

The original first game was for C128 and named "Enchanter: West Front to Apse" but was lost and later partly recovered and from that recreated so he made a very similar C128 version much later - at least https://ppanks76.tripod.com/apse1.txt says it was updated as late as 2003. So that recreated version should be covered by the same entry.

An almost identical C64 version was then produced (locations and objects seems to be the same the first many locations), except that it had to access the disk constantly instead of keeping the game in memory. There may also be a very faithful PC port (not to be confused with Westfront PC: Trials of Guilder). So this recreated C64 version should be the same entry as the original C128 game.

Partly in parallel with all this (? - dates are hard to figure out) he made the game "Westfront PC: Trials of Guilder" with 1700+ locations. Cutdown versions was then made for several platforms, normally named "Westfront <platform>" e.g. "Westfront 64", "Westfront VIC-20" which fits with "Westfront PC". These three have their own entries which is good as they are quite different due to huge differences in memory etc.

To make the confusion complete, I also found a C128 game which says when it starts: "Westfront I&II Version 7.6" and copyright 1994-1997. This fits with this quote: "I actually wrote two distinct text adventures that year but later combined them together to form one large game." ( https://ppanks76.tripod.com/apse3.txt )

It seems that at least 7 of the 8 CASA entries for Westfront games are distinct games. There may even be more, such as the one titled "Westfront I&II" but I guess we should clean up before considering adding more.

So I am still in doubt whether it is necessary to have both "Westfront to Apse" and "Enchanter: Westfront to Apse" and I notice that "Westfront to Apse" is not a part of the series.

I am trying to download all versions from his homepage (still exist) and the IF Archive to determine which versions are just for different platforms and which are truly distinct games, assuming that the admins here would like to modify the entries. I think the most important bit would be to clarify in the notes which versions are regarded as the same entry. If that isn't clear, we may end up with reviews and screenshots in the wrong places etc.

[Strident]

Yeah, I started looking at Paul's old websites the other week, in order to update a few of the entries on the site. Not all of Paul's notes about his various games agree with each other (depending on which sites and which readmes you look at) so I decided that any decisions regarding amalgamating entries would probably be best left to someone who had actually played a decent number of them.

[Denk]

That's a good point. I am currently playing the "first" Westfront game (Enchanter: Westfront to Apse) though it is a remake because the original was lost and only partly recovered. It is a C128 game in 40 column mode with maps (sort of).

I will post my findings here. Feel free to delete my two recent updates to "Enchanter: Westfront yo Apse" as they were made at a point where I had misunderstood the 8 CASA entries.

[Strident]

I've removed them as requested as it may be that we can agree a consensus here, based on what you find out by playing them, and also as I know some of the other contributors/admins/editors are more familiar with Paul's work and may chip in.

For reference, for anyone interested, here are some of Paul's past websites...

https://ppanks76.tripod.com/
This one is still online.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040505103 ... uladv.html
This one isn't but is on archive.org

[Denk]

I looked some more into Enchanter:Westfront to Apse (EWtA) and Mystic Castle (MC).

Though MC is very much inspired by EWtA they are different enough to be regarded as different games. Later, Paul found a way to port EWtA (a C128 game) directly to C64 by putting the location descriptions on a disk image instead of in BASIC memory. The C128 and C64 versions are thus more or less identical games except they have different bugs and all smurfs have been renamed to elves in the C64 version.

So it makes sense that "Enchanter: Westfront to Apse" is different from "Mystic Castle" and that there is both a C128-version and a C64-version of Enchanter: Westfront to Apse.

NB: There is a bug in the C64 version of EWtA. Before running the game, change:
1349 print"The boat sails into dock!":=1:return
To:
1349 print"The boat sails into dock!":return

Otherwise the game breaks when trying to visit Flora Island.

Maps below:
[EDIT: HAD TO SHRINK PICTURE, OTHERWISE ABOVE QUOTA THE SITE SAYS]

mini.png (40.36 KiB) Viewed 2610 times

The small map on the left is for Mystic Castle. The other two are almost identical and are for the C128 and C64 versions of Enchanter:Westfront to Apse. I have now submitted the three maps to the database as well as a review for Mystic Castle.