CASA ::

Adventure forum
It is currently Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:35 am

All times are UTC + 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Games everybody should know
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:43 am
Posts: 38
Location: The Netherlands
pippa wrote:
Richard Bos wrote:
On its target, yes. But ZCode is only the machine code of the ZMachine. Infocom's actual legible code was in ZIL, which is much more like a variant of Lisp than like imperative languages like Inform and TSAL.

Speaking as a non-programmer who can usually more-or-less follow the logic of programs by reading source code, despite being totally hopeless at actually writing it myself...

To me it looks like ZIL and Inform share an object-oriented approach, where objects have their own routines outlining how they react to different verbs. This means Inform seems to have a lot more in common with ZIL than with TSAL

Yes, the underlying world model of Inform shares a lot with that of the ZMachine - of necessity. Remains the fact that both Inform and TSAL are imperative, and ZIL isn't, making Inform partly similar to both - and, of course, the fact that whatever the languages are like, without exposure to TSAL it's unlikely Graham would ever have even thought of creating Inform.

In any case, I don't think Inform could have been based on ZIL, because AFAIK that wasn't known outside ex-Infocom circles in 1993. I remember the publication of part of its manual being a bit of a sensation on the newsgroups, and I certainly wasn't around for the start of Inform. But yes, you are of course right that the design of the ZMachine had, of necessity, a great influence on the data model of Inform. Don't confuse the data model with the language paradigm, though; they are separate issues in a system design.

pippa wrote:
(where the verbs all have routines describing how they act on different objects. Not to mention TSAL's weird insistence on using assembly-language-style relative jumps instead of proper IF...THEN...ELSE statements! What's that all about?)

That's about old-fashioned, low-level languages on a mainframe. Nobody these days would design any language like that, but in those days corners had to be cut.

pippa wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what sort of language Graham Nelson's two Galaxy's Edge games were written in? Was it more like Inform or TSAL? Or something else? (And how much is he embarrassed by that photo?)

I wouldn't know... we should show it to him <g>.

As for the language, certainly not Inform, since that wasn't published until 1993 officially, and presumably begun at most a year earlier. Certainly not TSAL, either; that was never available outside the Phoenix mainframe until Adam, David and Graham started the "Phoenix re-creation" project.
Presumably it was Basic. Let's see if I can find a disc or tape image somewhere. It doesn't seem to be commonly available on any of the BBC sites I've found, but I haven't been looking at BBC games for more than a month or two.

_________________
Richard Bos
The Netherlands
Spectrum nut and T/SAL "expert". And very amateur chess player.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Games everybody should know
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 11:51 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:22 pm
Posts: 39
some kind of random list from me;

- zork 1
- fish or guild of thieves
- worm in paradise
- adventureland
- curses
- bastow manor (even with its bugs)
- transylvania
- hobbit
- gateway

_________________
-- Stu / DF --
-- Mountain Valley + Softgold Adventure Fan --


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Games everybody should know
PostPosted: Sat Sep 05, 2015 10:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:33 pm
Posts: 17
Richard Bos wrote:
pippa wrote:
Out of curiosity, does anyone know what sort of language Graham Nelson's two Galaxy's Edge games were written in? Was it more like Inform or TSAL? Or something else? (And how much is he embarrassed by that photo?)
I wouldn't know... we should show it to him <g>. As for the language, certainly not Inform, since that wasn't published until 1993 officially, and presumably begun at most a year earlier. Certainly not TSAL, either; that was never available outside the Phoenix mainframe until Adam, David and Graham started the "Phoenix re-creation" project. Presumably it was Basic. Let's see if I can find a disc or tape image somewhere. It doesn't seem to be commonly available on any of the BBC sites I've found, but I haven't been looking at BBC games for more than a month or two.

Yes, it was BBC BASIC. More info here: https://ahopeful.wordpress.com/2015/09/ ... am-nelson/

_________________

My guide to Xanadu Adventure


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC + 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group