MicroMUD for the C64

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

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impomatic
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MicroMUD for the C64

#1 Post by impomatic » Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:50 pm

I was just wondering if MicroMUD for the C64 belongs in the Solutions Archive? It's a single player version of the original Essex MUD released by Virgin Games in 1988.
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Alex
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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#2 Post by Alex » Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:40 pm

I guess not because it is basically a rpg.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#3 Post by Gunness » Wed Feb 24, 2016 9:56 am

This goes back to the overarching question: what constitutes an adventure game?
Apart from pure text and text-with-graphics, we have joystick controlled games where you select text input. We have multiple choice games. We have RPGs with a strong adventure flavour. We have adventure games with RPG elements (a la The Hound of Shadow). We have Hunt the Wumpus-type games. We have text adventures with arcade elements.

In short, we have a lot of borderline cases, and I'd lie if I said that I haven't been influenced by popular opinion on many occasions.

Regarding the game in question - I have a hunch that its parser is better than quite a few early BASIC games which we have chosen to include. Still, if at its core it's all about hack, slash and levelling up, I'd say that it's not really for our database. Then again I don't really know it, so if you can put up a decent case for its inclusion, I'll be happy to listen :)

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#4 Post by impomatic » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:20 pm

The idea of MicroMUD is to explore the Land, collect items, solve problems and score enough points to become a wizard. Points are earned by solving problems, dropping treasure in the swamp and killing the creatures/inhabitants of the land.

The parser accepts the usual four word VERB NOUN PREPOSITION NOUN.

The game includes levels. As you score points your level increases. At later levels you can use objects which can't be used at lower levels, e.g. the axe, longsword and wand. There's no nonsense like character designers.

There are other players in the game controlled by an AI. They generally wander around, shout occasionally but otherwise mind their own business unless you attack them or ask for help.

The adventure starts on a road in a forest. Nearby are a graveyard and cottage to explore (can you find the centre of the graveyard, the attic and the sorcerer's study?). Further afield are a cave, mine and passage behind a waterfall leading into a network of caverns. Over the sea to the west are a shipwreck and a couple of islands if you can find a way to sail across.

MicroMUD has approx 400 locations and 130 objects and feels like an adventure to play.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#5 Post by Alastair » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:38 am

We started to talk about what should and shouldn't be included in the site a few years back but never came to any definite conclusions. However I stick with what I wrote back then namely, "Regarding RPGs with adventure elements I would base this on the nature of the adventure element. An RPG with nothing more complicated than a simple go to X to collect Y then take Y to Z activity should not be considered, whereas an RPG where you need to solve some puzzle before you can take Y should be included."

If the puzzles in MicroMUD fall in the latter (or more complicated) category then I reckon it does belong in the archive.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#6 Post by Mr Creosote » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:24 pm

Alastair wrote:go to X to collect Y then take Y to Z activity
Funny, that sounds like an appropriate description of many adventure games to me :D Fetch quests to open up locations, finding hidden objects… there are so many games which don't do more than that.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#7 Post by Alastair » Sun Feb 28, 2016 1:04 am

Mr Creosote wrote:
Alastair wrote:go to X to collect Y then take Y to Z activity
Funny, that sounds like an appropriate description of many adventure games to me :D Fetch quests to open up locations, finding hidden objects… there are so many games which don't do more than that.
You're quoting me out of context ;) the full quote is (my emphasis added), "Regarding RPGs with adventure elements I would base this on the nature of the adventure element. An RPG with nothing more complicated than a simple go to X to collect Y then take Y to Z activity should not be considered, whereas an RPG where you need to solve some puzzle before you can take Y should be included." So I'm talking about what level of puzzle complexity an RPG should have before it can be considered suitable for inclusion on the site.

An adventure game with nothing more complicated than a simple go to X to collect Y then take Y to Z activity is probably a dull game. Dull adventure games are not disqualified from the CASA database!

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#8 Post by Mr Creosote » Mon Feb 29, 2016 8:27 am

Let me be intentionally provocative: why would a game which also has other gameplay features need to do more than "basic" ones to qualify?

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#9 Post by Alastair » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:37 am

Hannes, it's getting too late for me to think coherently so I will address your question at a later date, but for starters I will state that it goes back to Jacob's original question of which games belong at CASA and which ones do not. I think we will all agree that an RPG comprising of nothing more than killing monsters, buying goods (food, weapons, armour, spells, etc.), and levelling up does not belong at CASA. However there are RPGs with adventure game elements so, assuming that CASA will include RPGs of this nature, the question becomes one of deciding what level of complexity should an RPG possess before we consider adding it to the site. The question is still open to discussion (and should really be continued on the linked thread), but my suggestion of ruling out those RPGs with the simplest of adventure game elements is just that, a suggestion.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#10 Post by Alastair » Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:12 am

Hannes, I have continued our discussion in the thread What games should we include?

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#11 Post by impomatic » Wed Mar 02, 2016 3:24 pm

A few example puzzles from MicroMUD:
  • There are two items X and Y. When you wave X you are transported to the location of Y (and vice versa). A particular problem can be solved by placing one item in a certain location so you can zoom straight there after pulling a lever elsewhere in the game.
  • There's a cannon which can be used to destroy a door, but only if you can find the powder, fuse and cannonball.
  • The graveyard is a maze, but if you drop one particular item it always lands pointing in whichever direction you need to go next.
  • Apart from a few dwarves, goblins and rats most creatures can be dealt with without combat, e.g. feeding item Z to the dragon.
Based on the above (and the fact it feels like a traditional adventure to play) should it be included?

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#12 Post by Gunness » Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:36 pm

Yes, I'd say it qualifies :) I will add it a.s.a.p.

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#13 Post by IstenNyila » Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:30 am

I have found this article where they state it actually has a real multi-player mode. Which could be done by using the daisy-chaining feature of the serial IEC ports: in practice, it means that multiple C64 machines must be connected to their shared common 1541 drive at the same time. (The game writes and reads the internal memory of the floppy drive directly for data interchange.) Obviously, it cannot be done in emulator, since there is no emulation of several computers on one single drive in such deep details, so it needs a real setup.

The article was written by Richard Bartle (author of the original MUD before) on his own personal blog last year:

http://youhaventlived.com/qblog/2015/QBlog270515A.html

Therefore, it is not a dumb game at all. And furthermore, really odd and uniqe in this way: as being an early and still almost unknown example of a real multi-player game on 8-bit.

Here are a few pictures, too, as well as a 17 MB PDF to download:

http://mocagh.org/loadpage.php?getgame=micromud

http://c64sets.com/set.html?id=104&show_all=1

From the manual page 4 titled "More Information...":

"MicroMUD contains almost every detail of Essex University MUD. You are pitted against 100 players, 10 of whom can play at the same time. They have a vocabulary of approximately 500 words. There are 112 creatures (or mobiles as they are known), more than 160 commands (most of which have abbreviations or alternatives), and more than 250 objects. There are over 400 rooms/locations."

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#14 Post by IstenNyila » Fri Mar 04, 2016 4:52 pm

Has anyone ever tried to play its multi-player mode?

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Re: MicroMUD for the C64

#15 Post by impomatic » Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:14 pm

IstenNyila wrote:Has anyone ever tried to play its multi-player mode?
I've never tried it and it's not mentioned anywhere in the manual.

Possibly it's a myth, an Easter egg or a feature they couldn't get working properly?

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