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Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:44 am
by Juan
Amby wrote:Next big events seem to be paying the ransom then meeting the courier.
Thanks for sending me all the clues in the book, Amby. I have a few comments, which I was going to send you via private message, but I think that anyone attempting to solve this game will perhaps benefit from these, so I will post them here.

I am not entirely sure that whoever wrote the "hints" in your book really finished this game. Here are some of the reasons why I think so. In one of the clues you sent me he says:
14) 2nd Ave & 135th St: Find dead man. This is bug city - dont go here before getting the phone call because then you cant leave the room.
Unless the Commodore 64 and Apple II versions differ at this point, I am a bit puzzled by this statement. I have gone to the museum (where you meet the informant) before answering the phone call, and I was not prevented from leaving by anything or anyone. For the moment being I am playing the C64 version, but later on I will try the Apple II version to see whether this is the explanation for this discrepancy. Then he continues:
Probably a key on the body, book author couldn't get it. Blowgun and Dart are of no use.
According to this statement, he did not manage to get the key either. But how does he know that such an object exists, since there has been no mention whatsoever of it within the game? The answer lies in the next "clue":
15) 6th Ave & 21st St: The locked locker is presumably what the key is for. The game code indicates that there are barbells in a duffel bag inside.
In other words, this guy obviously had to do what I also was forced to do in order to try to make further progress in the game: take a look at the actual program. When you get into the program with a hex editor, you indeed can see that there's a key to a locker. This key seems to be in someone's pocket (the dead informant, maybe? so far I have not been able to figure this one out.) The "hint" book says that it might be for the locker at 6th Ave & 21st St (where the sports complex is) but looking inside the program I found that the key has writing on it which says it's for locker N-7 (the one at the bus station in West & 21st St.)

Then he says this:
17) West & 21st St: Deliver ransom by dropping suitcase at lockers at 9:00pm, not before.

18 ) West & 21st St: Wait and watch for Crowded Corridor. If no one comes by 10:00pm, he (Livwell the courier) wont come due to a bug in the program..
I suspect that this is no "bug" but that you must do something before this courier shows up. I have tried doing this way before you told me about these "clues", and no one ever showed up (so far I have tried it only in the C64 version.) The ransom note says: "Deliver one million dollars in unmarked bills to locker N-7 etc..." It is not entirely clear if the money must be just dropped at the locker area, as the "hint" guy says, or if it must be placed inside the locker. I have tried quite a number of things here and all have failed to result in anyone showing up. The locker key that neither the author of those "hints" nor I have been able to make appear seems to be for this locker (in order to be able to place the money inside it, maybe?)

Finally, I find it curious that the person who wrote the "hints" does not seem to be aware that there are other "missing" things, like the basketball ticket and the pawn shop, but which are clearly there within the program.

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:45 pm
by Juan
Juan wrote: This key seems to be in someone's pocket (the dead informant, maybe? so far I have not been able to figure this one out.) The "hint" book says that it might be for the locker at 6th Ave & 21st St (where the sports complex is) but looking inside the program I found that the key has writing on it which says it's for locker N-7 (the one at the bus station in West & 21st St.)
Problem solved!!! "Examine body" and you find the damn key in his pocket. Seems easy, but since the word "body" does not show up in the game description it is actually quite tough to figure out what exactly is it that you have to say. I had tried "examine man", "examine dead man", "examine trench coat", "search man", "search dead man", etc. but nothing worked.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:22 am
by Mordae
Juan wrote:I suspect that this is no "bug" but that you must do something before this courier shows up. I have tried doing this way before you told me about these "clues", and no one ever showed up (so far I have tried it only in the C64 version.) The ransom note says: "Deliver one million dollars in unmarked bills to locker N-7 etc..." It is not entirely clear if the money must be just dropped at the locker area, as the "hint" guy says, or if it must be placed inside the locker. I have tried quite a number of things here and all have failed to result in anyone showing up. The locker key that neither the author of those "hints" nor I have been able to make appear seems to be for this locker (in order to be able to place the money inside it, maybe?)

Finally, I find it curious that the person who wrote the "hints" does not seem to be aware that there are other "missing" things, like the basketball ticket and the pawn shop, but which are clearly there within the program.
I believe the C64 and Apple II versions are different. I was able to finish the Apple II version using only the hints provided in this thread ('examine body' was the key to victory for me). The Apple II game code does not mention a pawn shop and the ticket appears to be just a filler object.

Posted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 3:46 am
by Juan
Mordae wrote:I believe the C64 and Apple II versions are different. I was able to finish the Apple II version using only the hints provided in this thread ('examine body' was the key to victory for me). The Apple II game code does not mention a pawn shop and the ticket appears to be just a filler object.
After finishing the C64 version, I have tinkered a little bit with the Apple II version, and there appear to be some minor differences, yes, but I am quite sure that the pawn shop is in the game program for that version as well. What hex editor did you use to take a look at the game code? I used CiderPress. Here are a couple of references to the pawn shop within the Apple II program, copied and pasted directly from the hex editor (you will find them in the file called "DES", which contains the descriptions of the game's locations):

YOU ARE AT 10TH AVE. & 135TH ST. IN FRONT OF THE "FOOL'S MATE" PAWN SHOP. THE DOOR LIES TO THE EAST. TO THE NORTH IS A BANK AND TO THE SOUTH, A SUBWAY STATION.

YOU ARE IN THE "FOOL'S MATE" PAWN SHOP. THE PLACE IS FULL OF JUNK AND THE PLACE LOOKS LIKE A DUMP. ALL SORTS OF OLD UN- USED STUFF HANGS ON THE WALLS. THE DOOR IS TO THE WEST.

Even though I have already finished the Commodore version, I was not able to make this pawn shop appear (and yes, pawn shop references also appear in the game code for that version.) This location is obviously not necessary to finish the game, but it seems to exist in both versions. How in blazes do you make it appear, though, because at 10th Ave. & 135th St. there is no pawn shop. Apparently you must do something for it to appear, but what???

Also, did anyone find out what exactly are the party hat and the noise maker for? I could not find any use for them, but there are references to both items in the game code (they suggest that you use the noise maker and the party hat to "sneak in", but it is not clear where, though I suspect it's the party that's going on at the Sizemore building.)

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:21 am
by Mordae
Juan wrote:
Mordae wrote:I believe the C64 and Apple II versions are different. I was able to finish the Apple II version using only the hints provided in this thread ('examine body' was the key to victory for me). The Apple II game code does not mention a pawn shop and the ticket appears to be just a filler object.
After finishing the C64 version, I have tinkered a little bit with the Apple II version, and there appear to be some minor differences, yes, but I am quite sure that the pawn shop is in the game program for that version as well. What hex editor did you use to take a look at the game code? I used CiderPress. Here are a couple of references to the pawn shop within the Apple II program, copied and pasted directly from the hex editor (you will find them in the file called "DES", which contains the descriptions of the game's locations):

YOU ARE AT 10TH AVE. & 135TH ST. IN FRONT OF THE "FOOL'S MATE" PAWN SHOP. THE DOOR LIES TO THE EAST. TO THE NORTH IS A BANK AND TO THE SOUTH, A SUBWAY STATION.

YOU ARE IN THE "FOOL'S MATE" PAWN SHOP. THE PLACE IS FULL OF JUNK AND THE PLACE LOOKS LIKE A DUMP. ALL SORTS OF OLD UN- USED STUFF HANGS ON THE WALLS. THE DOOR IS TO THE WEST.

Even though I have already finished the Commodore version, I was not able to make this pawn shop appear (and yes, pawn shop references also appear in the game code for that version.) This location is obviously not necessary to finish the game, but it seems to exist in both versions. How in blazes do you make it appear, though, because at 10th Ave. & 135th St. there is no pawn shop. Apparently you must do something for it to appear, but what???
I didn't search the disk itself so I don't know if that description exists on my copy. I do know that that description was not loaded into memory on my emulator. Perhaps it was a feature that they took out during playtesting? I'll keep tinkering to see if there's some sort of trigger, but I had found all the other objects and brought most of them with me to every location on the map.
Juan wrote:Also, did anyone find out what exactly are the party hat and the noise maker for? I could not find any use for them, but there are references to both items in the game code (they suggest that you use the noise maker and the party hat to "sneak in", but it is not clear where, though I suspect it's the party that's going on at the Sizemore building.)
You must use one of the party supplies to sneak into the party and finish the game. I didn't try to see if the timing of sneaking in was critical.

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:31 am
by Juan
Mordae wrote:I didn't search the disk itself so I don't know if that description exists on my copy. I do know that that description was not loaded into memory on my emulator. Perhaps it was a feature that they took out during playtesting? I'll keep tinkering to see if there's some sort of trigger, but I had found all the other objects and brought most of them with me to every location on the map.
I thought about that too, that maybe the pawn shop was once a game feature but was later eliminated, but two things seem to cast doubts about this:

1- Why did the programmers of the original Apple II version (1982) leave all those references to it intact?

2- Why would these same references also show up in the latter (1984) Commodore 64 version?
You must use one of the party supplies to sneak into the party and finish the game. I didn't try to see if the timing of sneaking in was critical.
I haven't tried on the Apple II version, but in the C64 version this is not necessary at all to finish the game. You just give the invitation to the guard and he lets you in.