Catacombs

Games for Spectrum, C64, Amstrad, Amiga, Apple ][ and the rest of the 8-bit and 16-bit platforms. Pleas for help, puzzles, bug reports etc.

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Alex
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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#31 Post by Alex » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:02 pm

Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:43 pm
To do this I hacked the DOSBox save states. That's why I also visited the "dried up lake" and the "throne room" and managed to solve the puzzles there. Problem is my old DOSBOX version (2012) stopped working yesterday.
Solved this problem :D I downloaded another version of DOSBox (DOSBox-X) with a debugger and it took me almost an hour, but in the end I learned how to make a binary memory dump of the program code and how to change a value in the debugger. I can walk freely through all the rooms again :) . It's a much faster method of trying something rather than having to walk each time through the entire game.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#32 Post by Alex » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 pm

Uka wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:02 pm
But I do not think there could be a real walkthrough yet, as we do not know how to get to Heaven, Geyser etc. without losing the coin - and how to get back from the Palace?
I do know how to enter heaven and go to the geyser without using the coin. cheating I have been in the location 62 of my map the "dried up lake". Problem is how to remove the plug.
What is the problem of getting back from the palace, because I have no problem with that?
Uka wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:02 pm
1) Removing the plug. I tried sword, scissors, wand, poker, thumbscrews... Still, the game clearly says that maybe you would be able to pull the plug... Should I become stronger? Like eating something healthy, maybe vegetables from the garden??? The matchbox says there is a vacancy for the gardener's mate, but I did not find a way to talk with the gardener.
Could be the purple sphere gives you more power. But we need the purple cube to get it and I guess it will be the gardener who gives it to you.
Uka wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:02 pm
2) Removing the web. Yes, flamethrower indeed seems to be suitable just for that task, but how to use it? I tried many things, but could it be just finding a specific verb? Or maybe the flamethrower is not ready yet, and something else should be done with it besides clearing the nozzle?..
I was thinking about that also. It becomes too hot so should we cool it somehow?
Uka wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:02 pm
3) The horse rider bug (?). Alex, do you see something about that in your DOSBox memory save states, or do we know about it only from Dorothy? You see, in order to fix this bug, we have to know where, when and how the horse should appear... Maybe we have to feed it, for example?
Yes I found below bit in the code:
ýÜassailsþynostrils¬Éþþrider'shorseýü±áawhoopsie

Note the actual phrases are coded and can't be read from the memory.
So the rider must be inside the game, but is there a bug or is there a specific circumstance to make him appear?

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#33 Post by Alex » Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:54 pm

This is a file with all the text visible in the program code if you are interested. But I don't think it will help solving the puzzles apart from providing a list of all the verbs and objects.

text from catacombs.zip
(16.75 KiB) Downloaded 33 times

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Uka
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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#34 Post by Uka » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:21 am

Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 pm
I do know how to enter heaven and go to the geyser without using the coin. cheating I have been in the location 62 of my map the "dried up lake". Problem is how to remove the plug.
Well, I do not think cheating will do for the walkthrough :)
Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 pm
What is the problem of getting back from the palace, because I have no problem with that?
I used to have two problems with that - I did not find the cube room before having your map to loot at, and my lamp was already dead on the back journey through the catacombs. Of course, that is not exactly a problem either, but still the final walkthrough should be very precise as for the number of steps and dousing lamp in necessary places.
Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 pm
I was thinking about that also. It becomes too hot so should we cool it somehow?
Yes, I was thinking about that as well: I can fill carafe with cool water from the lake (if we don't need that wooden stake anyway?), and the game does understand such verb as 'pour'. But I can't find a way to cool the flamethrower with the water yet...
Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:22 pm
ýÜassailsþynostrils¬Éþþrider'shorseýü±áawhoopsie

Note the actual phrases are coded and can't be read from the memory.
So the rider must be inside the game, but is there a bug or is there a specific circumstance to make him appear?
Hmm. I am afraid that's not enough to call that a bug that could be fixed :( Maybe that horse appears only after we do something we have not done yet?
It would be nice to find C64 or other version of the game to compare - that was the only way we could fix the bug with the cauldron in "Witch Hunt" that appeared in PC version but not in C64/AmstradCPC.
Alex wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:54 pm
This is a file with all the text visible in the program code if you are interested. But I don't think it will help solving the puzzles apart from providing a list of all the verbs and objects.


text from catacombs.zip
Yes, I have seen that text by looking at the EXE contents, but it is nice to have it in TXT a well :)
At least to see what verbs does the game know.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#35 Post by Alex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:01 am

There appears to be another bug :( when you try to walk past the Zombie carrying the purple sphere:
cq_000.png
cq_000.png (8.15 KiB) Viewed 1269 times

The ultimate 7 points you get when you take the purple cube after the gardener has left it. (of course I cheated in obtaining the manure :) because I don't know where to find the horserider )
No idea what is the use of the sphere however. If you drop it it returns to the purple room.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#36 Post by Alex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:18 am

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:21 am
the final walkthrough should be very precise as for the number of steps and dousing lamp in necessary places.
Yes a lot of turning off and on of the lamp is needed

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:21 am

It would be nice to find C64 or other version of the game to compare
Yes that would be very helpful

Still a lot of questions to answer:
-What to do with the spider/web?
-How to remove the plug?
-Where to find the manure or is it a bug?
-What is the use of the flamethrower or is it just a red herring?
-What is the use of the stake? Is it to get rid of the zombie after it follows you?
-Why bother taking the furry ball and chuck it over the railings?
-Is the angel of death (another "object"I did not find) the same one as the horserider?
-What is the use of the purple sphere?

Some we might answer but the above error with the zombie seems a real problem.

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Strident
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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#37 Post by Strident » Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:28 am

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:21 am
It would be nice to find C64 or other version of the game to compare
Lol. From a computer history point of view that would be great too, especially the original PET version, but for some reason these two games seem exceptionally rare and we've spent a long time trying to track them down. One of the problems in the past has been that most people don't know these games exist and so don't even know they're missing.

You guys are doing a great job with what you've got there. It is infuriating that we've got so close... finally having a version of the game but it doesn't quite work.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#38 Post by Uka » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am

Alex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:01 am
The ultimate 7 points you get when you take the purple cube after the gardener has left it. (of course I cheated in obtaining the manure :) because I don't know where to find the horserider )
Oh, great! So now we know how to get all 250 points?
But are you sure that "Internal Error" is not the result of your, well, cheating with the manure? Maybe we have to obtain it in some other way, so that the game would not lead to that crash?
And the gardener indeed gave you the purple cube after you used the manure, and then you were able to take the purple sphere, right?
Well, maybe you could attach your save with that sphere? So the experts I know could check that Internal Error bug.
Alex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:01 am
No idea what is the use of the sphere however. If you drop it it returns to the purple room.
Have you tried it with the plug, the web, or just using it somehow to get stronger?
Strident wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 8:28 am
Lol.
Yes, I know you have been searching for it for years :)
And it seems very strange to me that "Catacombs" and "Cornucopia", which were sold from 1981 to about 1991 in the UK and in Australia, are so rare that nobody even has the cover picture or the clue sheet (which should have answered most if not all our questions!), while all these are long available for the three other games of the same series.
Still, somebody did play the other version, as they know about the horse rider not appearing in the PC version etc.
Dorothy said she may have read about "Catacombs" in 'Probe' - that's some magazine, right? She does not have it anymore.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#39 Post by Strident » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:40 am

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am
Yes, I know you have been searching for it for years :)
And it seems very strange to me that "Catacombs" and "Cornucopia", which were sold from 1981 to about 1991 in the UK and in Australia, are so rare that nobody even has the cover picture or the clue sheet (which should have answered most if not all our questions!), while all these are long available for the three other games of the same series.
Still, somebody did play the other version, as they know about the horse rider not appearing in the PC version etc.
Dorothy said she may have read about "Catacombs" in 'Probe' - that's some magazine, right? She does not have it anymore.
Yes, Adventure Probe, the UK fanzine; one of the longest running fanzines in the world. I have a large collection of scans (and physical copies) but I don't recall coming across any printed solutions or partial solutions to the games, although they were on people's solved lists back then (when we'd write to each other for tips)... probably the earlier PET/C64 versions. Jim MacBrayne completed Catacombs on the PET back in the day, but doesn't really remember any details about it.

My collection of Probes isn't complete, as there were so many issues, but I will keep my eyes out as I do plan to go through them all again soon. One of the issues with Catacombs is there are several games with that title, but as we now know a lot more about this particular Catacombs, hints & tips for it are easier to spot.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#40 Post by Alex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pm

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am
Oh, great! So now we know how to get all 250 points?
Yes:
cq_001.png
cq_001.png (8.03 KiB) Viewed 1238 times
I have become "Super granny" lol
Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am
But are you sure that "Internal Error" is not the result of your, well, cheating with the manure? Maybe we have to obtain it in some other way, so that the game would not lead to that crash?
Quite sure I only changed 1 byte. , but I'm still looking at the system of storing the locations of the object. It is quite different from how it is normally done. I suspect they used binary values, but I'm not sure. work in progress :)

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am
And the gardener indeed gave you the purple cube after you used the manure, and then you were able to take the purple sphere, right?
Yes , you just have to drop the manure in the garden and the gardener drops the cube in it while he walks away. And yes when I had the purple cube I was able to take the sphere as the hint in the inscription on the purple room mentioned.
Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:31 am
Well, maybe you could attach your save with that sphere? So the experts I know could check that Internal Error bug.
I will when I understand how to save the game in dosbox that is how to connect a virual disk. I tried to mount a folder as a disk, but when I try to save the game it tells me saving failed. I don't use Dosbox a lot. So I will have to check that.

I suspect you have to eat the meal (which the spider is eating ) to be able to pull the plug, but because I don't know how to get rid of the spider yet I have to locate the meal in the game to try this and as mentioned above the way to put an object inside a location is quite different than it is normaly done so it take sa bit more time. But I'll let you know when I succeed to do so.

Probe Magazine, I was subscribed to it for some time, then one day I gave them away thinking I would never use them again :cry:

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#41 Post by Uka » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm

Alex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pm
I will when I understand how to save the game in dosbox that is how to connect a virual disk. I tried to mount a folder as a disk, but when I try to save the game it tells me saving failed. I don't use Dosbox a lot. So I will have to check that.
Oh, that's very easy. I attach the image of an empty floppy.
Just mount it in DOSBox alongside the game folder:

Code: Select all

mount c C:\Games\Catacombs
imgmount a C:\Games\Catacombs\save.ima -t floppy
And then you can use it to save games, there are 10 slots available.
cq_001.png
cq_001.png (6.45 KiB) Viewed 1235 times
Alex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:39 pm
I suspect you have to eat the meal (which the spider is eating ) to be able to pull the plug, but because I don't know how to get rid of the spider yet I have to locate the meal in the game to try this and as mentioned above the way to put an object inside a location is quite different than it is normaly done so it take sa bit more time. But I'll let you know when I succeed to do so.
Hmm. I am not sure the spider's meal looks healthy and tasty enough for us...
Have you tried taking vegetables after giving the gardener his manure?
Attachments
Save.rar
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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#42 Post by Alex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:04 pm

Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm
Oh, that's very easy. I attach the image of an empty floppy.
Ok thank you I will try it.
Uka wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:17 pm
Hmm. I am not sure the spider's meal looks healthy and tasty enough for us...
Examine meal, it is not bad. I did try taking and eating the vegetables, but that didn't work.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#43 Post by Alex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 7:52 pm

Ok I managed to save the game to the image. State 0 has the manure in the start location.
Manure.rar
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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#44 Post by Uka » Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:11 am

Oh, thanks!
I have checked it - yes, there is no way to get past Zombie with the purple sphere taken without the crash.
Unless we do not actually need that sphere, as the points are awarded only for obtaining the cube? But that seems very unlikely considering the inscription in the purple room.
I have forwarded the map and the saves (I have made another one at Zombie) to Total DOS Collection - hopefully the expert who has fixed "Witch Hunt" would get something out of it.

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Re: Catacombs/Cornucopia

#45 Post by Alex » Fri Oct 29, 2021 3:23 pm

Uka wrote:
Fri Oct 29, 2021 6:11 am
I have forwarded the map and the saves (I have made another one at Zombie) to Total DOS Collection - hopefully the expert who has fixed "Witch Hunt" would get something out of it.
Yes that would be great.

Some hex memory addresses which may help them :

8cf1 is the location where you are.
If an object is in you possession its value becomes F0 07
94BF and 94C0 is where the location of the angel of death (the horse rider) is stored. The number of the rider is 4D 0F.
9528 and 9529 is where the location of the manure is stored. The number of the manure is B6 0F.
They should be looking in the program where the value of these addresses are changed to learn in which location these should appear. The values of locations 94BD/94BE and 9526/9527 will be changed to F8 09 when the object is placed inside the game.

In general all the information of the objects is stored between address 8F70 and 9578 in memory.

I finished looking at the code which stores information about the objects. It is nothing binary as I thought at first, but it uses a very strange system of storing the location of the objects. I won't get too technical here but the location of an object is connected to the location of another object if there is already an object in that room. Apart from that each room has another number which is used to store the objects for instance room 15 on the map is also room 59 08 (this last number is used to store objects). The same counts for the objects. Object 27 (hex 1B) the wooden stake has also number 8D 0B. I do have lists of these numbers for all rooms and objects if wanted.

Enough of the technical stuff :) I extracted the weight of each object from the code. This might help in writing the best walkthrough. You can carry a total weight of 250:


nr weight name
8 19 holy water
11 35 good book
12 1 page
19 45 minute hand
23 55 sword
24 21 battery lamp
25 0 red substance
27 35 wooden stake
28 40 embroidered cloak
30 40 glass carafe
31 25 shiny ruby
33 67 marble bust
38 60 old laundry
45 56 platinum cup
50 25 small emerald
53 15 felt tip pen
55 20 purple sphere
60 45 old poker
61 20 thumbscrews
63 50 flamethrower
64 0 red button
65 0 nozzle
66 67 golden harp
70 15 coin
74 23 matchbox
75 2 spent match
78 50 furry ball
79 45 scissors
80 35 crystal wand
82 45 trident
87 45 gold crown
89 23 silver brooch
90 35 huge diamond
92 0 cool water
93 0 blessed water
97 44 long rope
98 35 manure
99 35 keys
101 35 purple cube


I didn't realize you can take the laundry as well.

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